Writing neurosis; attention meta (not: attention! Meta! *g*)

[hmpf]

So, whenever I've posted new fic to my website and announced it in LJ, I tend to check my website stats the next day or so, because I do want to know about the people who read my stuff. Not writing *for* an audience does *not* equal not being curious about the audience you do acquire - and it's simply a fact that if I put something online, it will be read, and yes, I am curious about those invisible strangers who consume something that was produced by my brain. (That, in itself, is not neurotic, I think.)

So... 97 hits since posting.

(Possibly) little known fact: I can see who reads my story - at least for a significant number of the readers. No, I'm not psychic; it's just that my webspace provider's stats include info on where people came from. So, if - as is the case in about 90% of the cases - you came from your friends page to my website, the stats will tell me you came from "http://yournamegoeshere.livejournal.com/friends" or "http://yournamegoeshere.livejournal.com/friends/people_I_read_occasionally" or whatever. Sure, it could be someone else who just happened to read your friends page and followed the link to my story displayed there, but I kind of assume that that doesn't happen all that often. (I may be wrong there.)

It's nice to be able to see who 'visited', even if they didn't leave a comment. :)

Occasionally - very occasionally - however, it also causes... well, maybe not exactly angst but certainly a kind of puzzlement. This happens when I see that people who I was almost 100% certain would like the story (and whose opinions I'm very interested in, because they're smart and bright and brilliant writers whose brains I want to marry and so on) have read it yet haven't commented. Because then I'm kind of set to wondering, what happened there? Were they busy and only had a minute to sort of scan the story before RL snatched them away from the keyboard again? Were they in a "no talking" mood? - I know it happens to me, and hey, this is still true. Or - and this is where the writing neurosis rears its ugly head: did they think the story sucked, and either didn't tell me because they wanted to avoid hurting my feelings, or simply because they thought it was so blah it wasn't worth talking about at all?

Now, I firmly believe that, *especially* in fandom, it is absolutely essential to one's emotional wellbeing to, well, not put a lot of weight on how many, or which, people react (or, as the case may be, *don't* react) to something you post. That way, inferiority complexes lie. I mean, like probably most of us, I've *been* there, in the early years, feeling like the most boring and worthless person in the world when a carefully considered forum post or fic I posted sank like a rock. It takes a special kind of resilience to experience that, and experience that *repeatedly*, and yet persist in fandom. (A solid 'sociological' understanding of how people/groups work helps, because it prevents you from automatically coming to the conclusion of 'I'm too boring to be noticed'.)

Well, as you can see, I'm still here, so I clearly have some of that resilience. ;-) And while I have, in the last three years, reached the dizzy heights of being recced on crack_van a couple of times, and being linked on metafandom (before I was dropped from their trawl lists again), I'm mostly back now to being mostly ignored, and I'm mostly fine with that. I understand that it's very probably because of my extremely erratic posting behaviour and my general anti-socialness; I understand that my worth as a person (and my worth as a writer) is not directly related to the amount and kind of attention I get.

There's just two areas where this not expecting attention thing still gets a bit tricky on occasion.

One is if people whom I hero worship a bit are concerned. I still don't *expect* them to react to anything I do, but it's hard/impossible to kill the hope (and, oh, did I mention I've been defriended by a couple of those people in the past? Talk about blows to the ego...)

The other is if people with whom I feel a somewhat closer connection are concerned. That's the real clincher. Because I am pathologically anti-social in Real Life, I have no handle on the practice of normal human relationships (I can write about them, sort of, but even there I have obvious limits). Reciprocity is... confusing. How much of it is normal? How much is too much? What are you supposed to expect of people, and what is too much to expect? My 'solution' to these questions so far has been the same I employ for fandom interactions in general, namely: try not to expect anything, ever. (Especially as I'm chronically unreliable myself in a number of serious ways in RL.) But even I can see that that is its own kind of neurotic, really.

Arrgh. Okay, this got long but not necessarily clearer, but I'm too frelling hungry to continue writing, or clarifying. And hey, it's my partyLJ, I can cryramble if I want to. *g*

Need food now.

*

Someone's mysteriously found this post via metafandom, though I can't see anything there? Oh well, I don't mind either way. So, hi to anyone who wanders in from that direction. Oh, and a lot of people have reacted to this with apologies. Folks: this is not necessary. This wasn't about guilt tripping you; it was about my own neurosis. Neurosis as in 'unhealthy behaviour/thinking pattern'. So, no reason for you to apologise. The problem is located in my psyche, not your behaviour. :-)

Need sleep now.

Comments

[http://users.livejournal.com/_inbetween_/]

When a story reached 3.000 seperate hits and still only had seven comments, I stopped checking any sort of tracker. It's never worth it.

Well, for one thing,

[hmpf.livejournal.com]

it's the only way to find out about recs. I would never have noticed I'd been recced on crack_van - twice! - if I hadn't looked at my stats. *g* So, overall, looking at the stats tends to make me feel good, really. The chances of finding accidental egoboo that way are much greater than those of finding something negative (though I've had that, too - I've been singled out as an example of a person with a particularly sad life one some forum. *g*)

I don't think anything I've written ever got 3000 hits with hardly a comment though. Actually, I don't think anything of mine ever got that many hits (well okay, probably cumulatively over a space of several years, yes, but certainly not in such a short space of time that the stats would show it).

May I ask what brings you to my LJ, btw? It's not that I mind, it's a public journal after all, I'm just curious. :-)

Re: Well, for one thing,

[http://users.livejournal.com/_inbetween_/]

*nods* but I never braved such searches either; I know there's an easy LJ function to search for appearances of your username as well though.

That one example must have been recced, somewhere a lot of people still see it - and since it got the single comment from someone who never comments to me I can guess, but don't want to know. Other posts had a similar ratio, and current opinion says that the former 1:100 ratio of comments to views has worsened (except for the few exceptions).

Flistflist - thought we'd spoken before but maybe not :) I sometimes comment when I think I have something to say.

[space-oddity-75.livejournal.com]

First of all, please let me offer you some Sam!Neckporn (because I can!), which I'm sure you'll appreciate. ;)

I think I've always always commented on your fics one way or the other, especially because you're one of my favourite authors and I love the fantastic choice of words you always make. Anyway, the times you don't find a comment by yours truly in your LJ is just because I'm also a lazy bastard who hardly ever updates her own journal (not a single entry this month... being in a foul mood doesn't help my social relationships either). Am I forgiven? *bats eyelashes*

Mmmmmmmmneckporn!

[hmpf.livejournal.com]

Nothing to forgive! I'm not trying to guilt trip people here, honest. And yikes, I don't expect everyone to reply to everything I post; that would be insane! I don't reply to every post on my flist, either, not even on the short, select list of people I'm already up to date with! The day only has so many hours...

The story I was whining about (sort of) here was from a different fandom, anyway. *g* I probably have greater 'attention issues' in that fandom (Highlander) than I have in LoM, really, because it was my very first fandom and while I have long since understood my social position in it and - more importantly - its reasons, the fandom and the issues it caused me *did* shape me to a not insignificant degree. It's kinda hard to leave that kind of thing behind entirely.

Re: Well, for one thing,

[hmpf.livejournal.com]

>I know there's an easy LJ function to search for appearances of your username as well though.

Really? I never heard of that.

>Other posts had a similar ratio, and current opinion says that the former 1:100 ratio of comments to views has worsened (except for the few exceptions).

Is that on LJ or elsewhere? Because I notice that the comments ratio is much higher on LJ than elsewhere for me. Although it also depends on fandom - a BSG fic I recently posted to fanfiction.net got something like five comments in a couple of hours there, whereas the HL fic I posted the day before yesterday took 24 hours or so to acquire its first and only comment.

>Flistflist - thought we'd spoken before but maybe not :)

How does flistflist work, anyway? Is there a link somewhere that I've overlooked? Or is that a function that's only available to paid users? (I'm currently a paid user, for two months, because someone gifted me with a paid account, but I haven't had time to familiarise myself with it all that much, and it seems a bit futile, too, as I will lose the extra features again in a few weeks. I do love the comments editing function, though. *g* Although it seems strangely erratic - sometimes it's present, and sometimes... it's not.)

And we may well have talked - even though I'm only up to date currently with some thirty or forty of the people on my flist, even that generates such a lot of activity per day that I tend to forget about the more infrequent interactions with people I don't encounter so often.

[melagan.livejournal.com]

I wandered in from _inbetween_'s and found your post very interesting. My own day is busy in spurts and I will quite often bookmark stories for a later read.
It doesn't mean I enjoy them any less, quite the opposite in fact.

(I only read the final edit)

[http://users.livejournal.com/_inbetween_/]

http://www.ljseek.com/

I think it was in general, I can't recall if somewhere it was 1:10 but last I heard it was much lower (1:500?) with the exception of the currently shiny bloggers, as mentioned.

Type another "friends" after the URL of your friends list and for two months you can see their friends as a blog roll. The last two years though it never actually showed everything you could see if you clicked on your friends friendslists individually.
The editing only works if nobody has replied yet. I still prefer to delete and repost *anal about additional line in reply*

Delayed reading

[hmpf.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I do that, too. And in fact I am currently going through the memories of the community lifein1973, reading everything that strikes my fancy, because I've been neglecting that fandom for nearly a year. So, I'm no stranger to delayed reading. I also sometimes just take a couple of days to think about a comment I want to make, if I want to leave more than a random squeeing noise. *g*

There's a reason I attribute my worry about people-reading-yet-not-commenting to my neurosis. I'm fully aware that there are three million reason why a person may not comment on a story immediately even though they may consider the story worthy. :-)

But there is an irrational part to my personality that, well... worries. Sometimes. I actually think my writer's ego is fairly healthy - for example, I haven't considered for even a moment that the story just may actually *be* crap. I'm completely convinced that it's really good and that *if* someone doesn't like it it's more due to different tastes than to a lack of quality. But, even so... ;-)

[tgifa.livejournal.com]

Ok, I feel bad for reading 68 Wives and not saying anything.

I tend to read the fics you post here but never ever comment on them, mostly because I don't know the series and feel kinda unqualified to give any proper review.

Atlas was probably the only one where I at least watched a small part of the series, and I should have dropped you a line because I was really impressed when I read it.

Though I could probably say that about any of your fics; I'm always impressed of how you always manage to say so much with so few words. And even though (or because) your fics are all very short, there's an incredible depth to them which leaves me in awe, and I definitely like your style.

About 68 Wives I cannot say much, I don't think that I can understand what it really is about (I've never watched Highlander). But I what I can say is that I like the concept and how it is set up, the counting down and how everything is coming full circle in the end.

And I know how it feels when you are waiting for certain people to comment and they don't; it's not a good feeling. But for what it's worth... you're not alone.

And you have no idea how often I was thinking "It's my LJ and I cry if I want to" when making an emo post ;)

[jinxed-wood.livejournal.com]

To be honest, I'm a bit shocked you didn't get more feedback as I thought it was a lovely story. Did you crosspost it to highlander_fic, etc?

It seems to me, a lot of how one's story is received depends on silly things like the time of the week it's posted, and the politics of the actual fandom (although Highlander isn't the worst for this). All I can say is keep plugging away :-)

I got a decent amount of feedback, really.

[hmpf.livejournal.com]

Something like just under 20 comments, I think. That's pretty good for a total of just under 100 hits! So, overall I'm really quite happy with that. I'm just 'angsting' about some specific people here, really. Basically, people who I know have reacted very positively to similar fic in the past etc, so I was kind of expecting this would be up their alley. And, you know how it is (maybe?) - you always look for the reason of a 'mysterious' silence in yourself first (or, in this case, in your fic), even though it's probably just due to some completely random external factor.

Well, for the record:

[hmpf.livejournal.com]

I'm kind of surprised you even read my fic, because we don't share so many active fandoms. I don't really read much fic outside my fandoms and always kind of assume other people don't either (and I'm fine with that). So, I'm flattered you do read mine! And even more flattered to hear you like it. :-)

Oh, and actually...

[hmpf.livejournal.com]

I wasn't aware of highlander_fic! Thanks for the tip! I just crossposted to highlander_lj.

[dswdiane.livejournal.com]

Actually, I'm fairly sure you probably don't even know who I am, but just as a response, there was a time in the past when I almost never commented even when I liked a story because I didn't have the time for detailed comments. There has also been times in the distance past in which I never commented because I was dealing with depression. That was actually before LJ to be honest.

During the last episode of depression I had, as a matter of fact, I spent about six months doing almost nothing when I wasn't working or attending to essential life support systems, except read HL fic, mostly Duncan/Methos slash and never commented. I just devoured it as if it were th only food that might renew my aching soul. But that is TMI.

I've since realized about option 1 that even saying "hey, that was great," was better than no comment at all.

I think folks have a lot of reasons for not commenting and many of them have nothing to do with not liking the story. I once had a very well known and well respected writer of HL fic tell me in email that she rarely commented even when she liked a fic because she was well known and well respected and overwhelmed with emails from folks whose work she liked but whom she didn't have time to establish a relationship. I *think* that was what she said. I might be wrong.

Anyway, I friended you because I like your fic.

[loqia.livejournal.com]

I just crawled in here from metafandom and would just like to say thank you. Because it's like you crawled into my head and scooped out my thoughts... except not in a creepy way and, actually that was a pretty terrible analogy.

/runs

[ithildyn.livejournal.com]

Don't know if it will make you feel any better, but I worry about the same sorts of things after I've posted a story. I nodded a lot reading your post :)

I haven't read your story yet, not on purpose, I just haven't had time/been in the right frame of mind/gotten to it. I really do try to comment whenever I read a story. It may be just a 'I really liked that', but I know how much it means to me when I know people have enjoyed my fic, so I try and do unto others :)

BRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAIIIIIIIIIIIIIIINNNNNNNNNNNS!!!

[hmpf.livejournal.com]

(What? I am a zombie (http://hmpf.livejournal.com/212728.html)!)

*scoops out your brains with unbleeding, decaying hand*

Also: metafandom? Really? How/why/when/where/what??

Hi!

[hmpf.livejournal.com]

I do know you - well, I know your name, anyway. We've talked before. :-)

I actually don't really mind if people don't comment - it would be fairly hypocritical of me if I did, as I don't always comment either, etc. My issue here (and it really is *my* issue, i.e. a symptom of a larger neurosis/complex/whatever-you-wanna-call-it I have, and therefore *my* problem and not that of the people who haven't commented) is really just that I saw that some people who I sort of thought would love the fic read it but didn't comment, and, well, with the way my mind works, that of course translated as 'they didn't like it' - I am, however, fully aware that there are many other possible explanations, ranging from 'I actually only bookmarked the fic for later reading' to 'the cat chose just that moment to vomit on the keyboard' ;-)

So, uhm, this really is just a case of irrational writer's angst running rampant here. :-)

Oh, and thanks for the friending; I should, however, warn you that a) the proportion of Highlander stuff in my journal is actually rather low, as is the proportion of fic in general, and b) I tend to have long phases of being completely absent from LJ, ranging well into months or more. I'm still 'recovering' from the last such phase, which means I'm currently trying to catch up with my flist, and I tend to get more than a bit overwhelmed with the hugeness that is fandom on LJ, and even just my flist. So, basically... I can't guarantee I'll actually be a) very interesting and b) always present. ;-) (I'll friend you back if you decide to keep me friended after that rather long warning, though.)

Hehe. Yeah, I think it's a fairly common thing for writers to worry about.

[hmpf.livejournal.com]

No need to justify yourself for not reading or not commenting, btw. That really wasn't what this post was about. The post I linked to in the middle of it (the link titled 'this is still true') is just as valid for fic as for anything else. LJ is too huge and too active to pay attention to everything at all times. It's just not humanly possible.

Re: BRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAIIIIIIIIIIIIIIINNNNNNNNNNNS!!!

[loqia.livejournal.com]

I do not have a zombie icon; that is very remiss of me. :O

And yus, metafandom (http://del.icio.us/metafandom). Hasn't been digested on LJ yet, but I subscribe to their RSS feed. I R so ahead of the pack!

/insert obligatory "in before" comment here.

Re: Hi!

[dswdiane.livejournal.com]

Hi back at you. Yes, we have talked before, but I wasn't sure you remembered me.

I know all about the neuroses of writers and their needs for feedback. (a) I am actually a psychologist and (b) I share your neuroses.

As for your last paragraph, it seems you and I have a lot in common. I rarely update my LJ. I've not written fic in ages except for participating in the recent sekrit Santa for LJ in hlh_shortcuts which you might enjoy if you've not yet read.

So, I can also not guarantee I'll actually be a) very interesting and b) always present. But that's all right with me about myself and about you. Much of the time I am so introverted that I might as well be an interpersonal black hole. No, not quite. Comments to me do not just disappear. I do respond. I just don't really post that often.

[kyuuketsukirui.livejournal.com]

Here via metafandom.

As someone said above, the thing with hits is there is no way to tell from a hit that the person actually even read the story. They could have opened it in a tab to read later, or opened it up to bookmark (of course you can bookmark by clicking a link, too, but for example, when I bookmark, I like to note the word count on delicious, so that often entails opening the page and getting a wordcount myself if the author didn't note it (or maybe they noted it in their headers, but the person I saw the link from didn't note it, etc.). I have so many fics bookmarked to read (about 700) and so little time to read that it can be months or even years from the time I bookmark to the time I read.

Re: I got a decent amount of feedback, really.

[highlanderer.livejournal.com]

20 comments for 100 viewers is very high, particularly for the state of Highlander today. Much higher than anything I've posted for years, I think.

But I obsess over who individually comments, as well; at times I'm concerned when specific people I respect ignore a story that I thought would be to their taste (or even, once, ignored by someone who asked for a story and then ignored the result). Can't say anything reasonable except that yes, I sympathize.

[thoran-ziyal.livejournal.com]

Okay, bin zu faul das jetzt auf englisch zu schreiben ;-)

Ich kann das durchaus nachvollziehen, auch - oder gerade weil ich auf deutsch schreibe und das Fandom doch bedeutend kleiner ist. Da trifft es mich eher, wenn Leute, von denen ich weiß, dass sie meine Stories lesen, nicht darauf reagieren, egal wie sehr ich sie wert schätze. Aber ich denke, als deutsch schreibende Autorin ist frau dran gewöhnt, noch weniger FB zu bekommen ;-)(vor Allem, wenn man dan sieht, wie ioft die Stories gelesen wurden O_O). Ich versuche daher, mir nicht so viele Gedanken über das nicht gegebene FB zu machen, sondern mich über jeden positiven Satz zu freuen.

Anyways. Ich versuche jedenfalls immer FB zu geben, wenn ich eine Story gelesen und für gut befunden habe - auch wenn es teilweise länger dauert, bis ich zum lesen komme (Stichwort Bookmarks).