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hmpfThere are two new people on my friends list and I feel friendly today, so here's an official welcome post!
New friend number one is![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
aprivatefox in whose journal I found this very articulate, personal explanation of furry fandom which prompted me to give him a link to my recent thoughts on fandom and fetishism which prompted him to reply this which prompted me to reply this and this and basically led to us friending each other. *g* So, welcome aprivatefox!
New friend number two is actually an old friend:frank_altpeter is a veteran German Scaper ;-) whose interests according to his user info include 'whiskey' and 'whisky', but no Farscape - I'm shocked! ;-) Nah, not really - I do realize that some people do move on, and moreover, that fandom is not as central to everybody's identity as it is to mine. Anyway, welcome to LJ and my friends list, Freddy!
And, speaking of identity and fandom... yesterdaycathexys posted some thoughts about slash, fandom, identity and activism in her LJ (which unfortunately is friends locked, so you won't be able to go there and read them, sorry). Those thoughts sparked an interesting discussion (as happens almost on a daily basis in cathexys's journal, since she is almost scarily perceptive and articulate, and so are most of the people who read her LJ, it seems), and in the course of that discussion I posted this:
>>Well, I'm not a real slasher, having only written one slash story, so slash is certainly not central to my identity per se. However, slash is a part of the larger culture of fandom in my eyes, and being a fan *is* very central to my identity. And I *would* liken being a fan almost to something like a sexual identity, although it is of course about much more than sex. (But then, if you're a homosexual to whom being homosexual is of central importance in terms of identity, chances are that it's not just about the sex, either, but also, like fandom, about community.) Maybe a cultural identity is a better way of putting it. And putting it that way, it's absolutely central to my identity. Not because I have no life, but because it describes my way of relating to people, and to fictions - and indirectly, to life. A large part of being a fan, for me, is to take fictions seriously, and appropriate them, and make something new of them. I have always 'lived' very much 'in' the books I read, and I have always, in my mind, expanded the stories, written fanfic, if you will. Fandom is a whole culture of people doing the same; people who *communicate* that way. People who speak my language. A whole culture of people to whom imagination is a crucial quality to cope with life.<<
So there. My credo. In not so perfect English, and far from the brilliance that some people in that discussion displayed, but, even rereading it today, I still like it. It still rings true. This is me.
New friend number one is
aprivatefox in whose journal I found this very articulate, personal explanation of furry fandom which prompted me to give him a link to my recent thoughts on fandom and fetishism which prompted him to reply this which prompted me to reply this and this and basically led to us friending each other. *g* So, welcome aprivatefox!New friend number two is actually an old friend:
frank_altpeter is a veteran German Scaper ;-) whose interests according to his user info include 'whiskey' and 'whisky', but no Farscape - I'm shocked! ;-) Nah, not really - I do realize that some people do move on, and moreover, that fandom is not as central to everybody's identity as it is to mine. Anyway, welcome to LJ and my friends list, Freddy!And, speaking of identity and fandom... yesterday
cathexys posted some thoughts about slash, fandom, identity and activism in her LJ (which unfortunately is friends locked, so you won't be able to go there and read them, sorry). Those thoughts sparked an interesting discussion (as happens almost on a daily basis in cathexys's journal, since she is almost scarily perceptive and articulate, and so are most of the people who read her LJ, it seems), and in the course of that discussion I posted this:>>Well, I'm not a real slasher, having only written one slash story, so slash is certainly not central to my identity per se. However, slash is a part of the larger culture of fandom in my eyes, and being a fan *is* very central to my identity. And I *would* liken being a fan almost to something like a sexual identity, although it is of course about much more than sex. (But then, if you're a homosexual to whom being homosexual is of central importance in terms of identity, chances are that it's not just about the sex, either, but also, like fandom, about community.) Maybe a cultural identity is a better way of putting it. And putting it that way, it's absolutely central to my identity. Not because I have no life, but because it describes my way of relating to people, and to fictions - and indirectly, to life. A large part of being a fan, for me, is to take fictions seriously, and appropriate them, and make something new of them. I have always 'lived' very much 'in' the books I read, and I have always, in my mind, expanded the stories, written fanfic, if you will. Fandom is a whole culture of people doing the same; people who *communicate* that way. People who speak my language. A whole culture of people to whom imagination is a crucial quality to cope with life.<<
So there. My credo. In not so perfect English, and far from the brilliance that some people in that discussion displayed, but, even rereading it today, I still like it. It still rings true. This is me.
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no subject
Date: 2004-02-28 09:34 am (UTC)As long as I can remember, since I first became interested in fandom and before fic, my feelings for the characters have been distinct from the actors. I love Captain Kirk, for instance, but have not the slightest interest in William Shatner. I write fic about John Crichton, but Ben Browder is a real person like me and deserves all the privacy I would like to be afforded.
I do not create icons of Ben Browder, Claudia Black, etc.; they are of John Crichton, Aeryn Sun and the other characters. There has never been any confusion between for me. I made one icon of Ben Browder out of Crichton character, a publicity shot that I modified, but afterward felt rather uncomfortable about it. Publicity shots in character aren't quite the same; they're neither canon nor 'real'. It's a fuzzy area, so I typically stick to canon captures.
Fandom certainly is wish fulfillment; every fic is a dream on the writer's part, every photomanip, every music vid. Shared dreams are what draw us together; common affection for stories we have for whatever reason drawn close to our hearts. So participating in fandom is a way of perpetuating the community, being part of a network of people like ourselves.
no subject
Date: 2004-02-28 10:58 am (UTC)I think, it's a very sane handling of being a fan. :o)
Embarrassment...
Date: 2004-02-28 12:22 pm (UTC)I think you are referring...
Date: 2004-02-28 12:01 pm (UTC)Or maybe my brain is just fried. Which is entirely possible. Sociology overdose. ;-)
Re: I think you are referring...
Date: 2004-02-28 01:28 pm (UTC)What's FPS, precioussssss?
Date: 2004-02-28 02:02 pm (UTC)I do know what RPF is, although that is one particular fannish pursuit that I feel no inclination for whatsoever (but I have friends who do). But I don't know what FPS is. (Frell, gotta brush up on my fannish terminology... how embarrassing!*g*) But I'm still hopelessly confused - what discussion were you referring to? I'm sorry, I don't mean to be obstinate... I'm just, well, confused. ;-) I feel like we've read the same book but taken a radically different meaning from it, or something. IMO the discussions I linked to were about furry fandom; the connection between fandom in general and fetishism in general; the obligation to be a political activist that might or might not be derived from being a slash writer/reader; and the connection between slash writing and personal identity and general fandom and personal identity.
So, where exactly does the actor and the RPF debate come it? I mean, it's a fascinating topic and one that I have often wondered about - but not one that I have so far discussed, I think! But I may be missing some implicit connection here somewhere. (I could see one in the two things I linked to in my reply to your reply, but apparently that was not 'it'...) But, as I said, my brain is pretty much fried today.
Sorry to be so confusing/confused. *g*
Re: What's FPS, precioussssss?
Date: 2004-02-28 03:06 pm (UTC)and
http://www.livejournal.com/users/eolianbeck/164551.html
I think FPF and FPS may mean Fictional Person Fiction and Fictional Person Slash? Not entirely sure.
There was this vast discussion about the difference between the character and the actor, about how the body used in fanfic for the character is perceived or not perceived as the actor's own body. West Wing references included a character with a tattoo, while the actor has no tattoo. Another character walked differently than the actor.
So there can be a gap in perception - the actor is the basis for the body and character, but the character assumes an independent existence.
Which is what led to my first post!
Okay, now I feel more comfortable. *g*
Date: 2004-02-28 04:09 pm (UTC)Re: Okay, now I feel more comfortable. *g*
Date: 2004-02-28 05:03 pm (UTC)Re: What's FPS, precioussssss?
Date: 2004-02-28 06:13 pm (UTC)though i've started to use the term mediafic mostly, simply b/c that way we can distinguish it from comicfic...and what in the world do you do with wrestling fic :-) is that fictional or real (hederahelix actually has a neat continuum theory about that...)
and i can totally see your discomfort with actual pics versus screenshots...i think alot of non-rps'ers feel that way...the rest of us are shameless *g* (though i actually really could care less about actorslash personally, but i certainly won't throw stones, b/c next thing i know i'll be reading lotrips...LOL.)
Oookay...
Date: 2004-02-28 07:08 pm (UTC)Re: Oookay...
Date: 2004-02-28 07:49 pm (UTC)However, I'd argue that the line should probably be drawn somewhere along the celebrity status, i.e., regardless of whether they are musicians or actors, the differrence is in how much they perform for the audience outside of their actual work performance. You have actors and musicians who do their job and then go home to wife and kids. And you have folks who are on every magazine year round and thus pretty much live in the public eye (and then it makes no difference whether they are Ben Affleck or Justin Timberlake).
I have a whole bunch of stuff on the relationship between reality and the fiction we write, what constitutes our source material, etc. if you're interested. (Or you can just read my article which pretty much condenses many months of LJ debate. LOL.)
I think I'd like to read that article!
Date: 2004-02-29 02:42 pm (UTC)Re: I think I'd like to read that article!
Date: 2004-02-29 03:15 pm (UTC)Thanks!
Date: 2004-02-29 03:25 pm (UTC)Okay, gotta get back to writing letters to the BBC to make them reconsider axing their genre slot now.... Been reading sociology and fixing kitchen appliances all day, so it's time now to do something useful for *fandom*, for a change. *g*
Re: Thanks!
Date: 2004-02-29 03:33 pm (UTC)I hope you enjoy it, though. I'm actually quite proud of it!
And none of us are as bright as we'd like to be...*see my icon*
Miss you :-)
Date: 2004-02-28 11:02 am (UTC)Yes, you're right - it's very shocking not to have some of the most important things noted in the interests list - so i appended some things like farscape, and... you :-)
I think it's frelling time to get to the next TBFC and i really hope that you are joining us.
Indeed i'm not that big farscape fanatic anymore, since i know all episodes and new ones are not expected on the short view - but i still like the series, no matter which way my (private) life has been going the last year (girlfriend, you know - no time anymore to concentrate on TV, reallife has taken me over :-).
Long words short meaning, i'm feeling glad you welcome me and i'm looking forward to see you again.
Re: Miss you :-)
Date: 2004-02-28 12:18 pm (UTC)Wow, thanks. Now I am officially an LJ interest... I feel famous! *g*
>I think it's frelling time to get to the next TBFC and i really hope that you are joining us.
Well, unless something really bad happens (like my plane crashing or something) I expect I will. Hey, I *live* for TBFCs. Well, not quite... but they certainly are a very important tradition for me, by now! And, wow - it's number 7! That means we've been meeting for three years now!
>Indeed i'm not that big farscape fanatic anymore, since i know all episodes and new ones are not expected on the short view - but i still like the series, no matter which way my (private) life has been going the last year (girlfriend, you know - no time anymore to concentrate on TV, reallife has taken me over :-).
Yeah, I know that feeling. Well, sort of. The Evil Real Life Monster *tries*, but I don't let it. But it's a struggle.
>Long words short meaning, i'm feeling glad you welcome me and i'm looking forward to see you again.
So do I, so do I!
no subject
Date: 2004-02-28 06:19 pm (UTC)and we've already debated your position statement :-) i actually have been thinking about how many of y'all apparently see themselves as fans first and foremost...with the fic coming as a subset. interesting!
Well, the fic *is* a subset - both in terms of fan culture
Date: 2004-02-28 07:05 pm (UTC)Psychologically, writing comes a long way after actual reception, and since I discovered fandom, after debating the meaning of what was received. (Although of course writing and its virtual preliminary stages - what I call mindfic, the crude story material that flits through your head after you've seen or read something that pushes your fannish buttons - form part of debating that meaning.) At the most basic level fandom is living in stories, and you don't have to write your own to do that. Anybody who's lived for a year in the glow of a book (LotR in my case, 1992) knows what being a fan is; I've been a fan long before I became a writer.
On the next level there's the making sense of it and the creative aspect. And on yet another level is the community building.
Oh frell, I have to cut this short here and now. I have to go to bed, it's three a.m. again. Frell, frell, frell.
Re: Well, the fic *is* a subset - both in terms of fan culture
Date: 2004-02-28 07:52 pm (UTC)thus, i'd call myself a slash fan first, not a source text fan...
Am I a source text fan...?
Date: 2004-02-28 08:26 pm (UTC)In Highlander fandom I was a fan of one character, but not the entire source text - but I guess you could say the character could be considered the source text for me, then. But with time the community became more important. And the writing, of course. That was my first writing fandom. So, the writing was pretty central for me there as it could focus on the character I was interested in instead of the hero of the show whom I found boring.
With Star Trek (Deep Space Nine) it was the source text, pretty much. Never really found a community; and didn't read all that much fic.
With Tolkien - actually my oldest fandom - it was always the source text, and fan fiction actually makes me uncomfortable there. But the community is very important, and this is the only fandom where I'm actually part of a Real Life organisation (the German Tolkien Society).
With Harry Potter it was a character again - Sirius - or a pairing - Sirius/Remus. There, the writing, or rather the reading of fanfic is everything - I'd go so far as to say that for me the real Sirius and Remus only exist in fanfic, and the books merely served to suggest a certain pattern that could be used in fic. I'm even less attached to Harry Potter as a whole than I am to Highlander.
With Farscape, it's the whole package - the characters, the universe, the whole source text; *and* the writing, the reading, the discussing, not to mention the Save Farscape campaign! Farscape is the fandom where I've done the most fannish things, including costuming, meeting a star, and vidding.
And then, of course, there's the whole 'background noise' of being a fan... there's a lifelong fascination with space, the future, alternate realities, fantasy. There's the feeling I get when I stand in the sf section of a bookstore just looking at the books, and the feeling I get when I read about space, and the exhilaration of discovering a new idea or a new universe. All that is also part of being a fan, for me.
So, I am not just a fan, I am, specifically, an sf fan. I am also a media fan, and a budding comic fan, but there also I heavily lean towards sf and related things.
Oh, this is complicated. But I can't untangle it now.
Re: Am I a source text fan...?
Date: 2004-02-28 08:30 pm (UTC)Yes, mom. Or maybe: yes, ma'm!
Date: 2004-02-28 08:33 pm (UTC)Re: Yes, mom. Or maybe: yes, ma'm!
Date: 2004-02-28 08:34 pm (UTC)NOW GO TO BED!!!!
Well...
Date: 2004-02-28 08:36 pm (UTC)*runs*