Also:

[hmpf]

WTF, people? - Yes, 'stop flying' means *you*, too! (No doubt that makes me an EVUL ECO-NAZI who wants to deprive people of the well-deserved, meagre joys of their stressful lives, and probably all just because I'm jealous I can't afford expensive holidays myself. Or, as my mother puts it: "We just can't *live* the kind of limited life that *you* live!" - Though, to be fair, my parents' preferred mode of holiday is the bike tour, so they're pretty near ecological paragons in that respect. Our points of conflict are more along the lines of food, i.e. the need, or, in their view, the unimaginable deprivation, of reducing meat and, even more importantly, fish consumption.)

Comments

Also,

[(Anonymous)]

ich weiß nicht mehr, woher ich die Weisheit habe, aber unlängst hörte ich von folgender Theorie:
Der Mensch an sich hat eher tatsächliche Angst vor und wehrt sich gegen Bedrohungen, die er evolutionär bedingt kennt: fremde Menschen, Raubtiere (Stichwort: z.B. Rückkehr der Wölfe nach Deutschland), Unwetter. Evolutionär "unbekannte" Bedrohungen wie Klimawandel, Artensterben etc. passen nicht ins Schema. Also laufen wir mit offenen Augen ins Messer.
Das ist keine Entschuldigung für die Dummheit der Menschen, nur ein weiterer Puzzlestein.

Habe mir übrigens von Derrick Jensen "Endgame" gekauft, aber noch nicht angefangen; er vertritt die These, daß die Zivilisation, in der wir leben, untergehen muß, um "die Welt zu retten", um es so auszudrücken. Ich geb´s Dir dann gerne weiter.

Grüße von der Scherbenfront,
Kiki

[torn-eledhwen.livejournal.com]

I'd love to fly less, but living in NZ it's pretty impossible because land-based transport takes forever. If I want to get to Auckland for a conference or whatever, I can fly in an hour, but the bus, train or driving would take all day (or all night, very uncomfortably). Going to the South Island is even worse. I'll fly less when I get home to Europe - but in the meantime, I do do all I can to minimise my environmental impact (cycling or walking everywhere, reusing bags, turning stuff off standby, and so on) and yes, I do think that mitigates the flying a tiny bit. Not a lot, but a bit.

[beccadg.livejournal.com]

No doubt that makes me an EVUL ECO-NAZI who wants to deprive people of the well-deserved, meager joys of their stressful lives...

I'm not sure I'd say it makes you an "evul eco-Nazi" but I will say it seems like you're failing to encourage people to look at different ways to fly. Of course flying on heavier-than-air craft requires burning a lot of jet fuel. Those jet engines have to push the craft through the air. Flying by lighter-than-air on the other hand... well, you got me curious about what sort of progress Zeppelin Luftschifftechnik GmbH has been making on selling Zeppelin Neue Technologie craft. I found out they're cleared to start flying here in the States, and will begin operations in California from Moffett Field, North Oakland and Sonoma County airports in November!

Endgame

[hmpf.livejournal.com]

Ich weiß nicht, ob ich das lesen möchte. Ich bin, bei aller Schwarzmalerei, eher optimistisch veranlagt (allerdings für eine recht verzweifelte Form von Optimismus *g*) und reagiere auf Leute, die den Untergang als quasi begrüßenswert sehen, etwas allergisch. Die stehen in meiner persönlichen Wertschätzung nur knapp oberhalb der Leute, die nicht müde werden, zu betonen, daß wir es ja wirklich *verdient* haben, auszusterben, und je schneller, desto besser.

My rant...

[hmpf.livejournal.com]

really mostly meant people who go on relatively frequent intra-European holidays by plane etc., as well as companies/individuals who schedule lots of not always very necessary business trips by plane.

I do realise that there are people for whom - in the current system - flying really is the only reasonable option, and if I were World Eco Dictator ;-) I'd prohibit flying very much depending on the individual situation. E.g. I wouldn't dream of telling you or my friends Anne or Becka and her husband, who life in NZ, Australia, and Korea, respectively, but are originally from Europe and still have family there (and, in the case of Becka, also in America), that you should stop seeing your family unless you travel by ship.

That said... taking all day by bus or train is actually within the realm of the acceptable, I think. Yeah, it's not *comfortable* - but as long as we're not talking *several* days with frequent changes and tons of luggage and whatnot, I think people (not looking explicitly at you; obviously you are already thinking very much about your impact, and doing something to remedy it, so I really don't mean you particularly) should at least think about that option. I have travelled from Frankfurt to Barcelona and back by bus (22 hours) and from Frankfurt to Cardiff by train and bus (19 hours - but that included several crazy emergencies while still in Germany; usually it's more like 7-8 hours), and from Cardiff to Frankfurt by bus (13 hours) - and, while decidedly exhausting, it worked just fine and was not entirely without advantages: I enjoyed actually getting a sense of the journey, and seeing the country I was passing through.

I wouldn't recommend it to anyone with serious back, knee or hip difficulties, though (those are the parts of my body that hurt for a while afterwards *g*). But for healthy people, it's really not *that* much of an inconvenience.

(As I kept telling myself during the crazy emergency situation that delayed me on my way to Britain a few months back: just remember how long this kind of trip would have taken in the 18th century - and how uncomfortable it would have been! *g*)

Oh, I'd be all over zeppelins!

[hmpf.livejournal.com]

They rock.

Unfortunately they're not a commercial option yet.

I certainly wouldn't mind if people flew by *zeppelin*!

Re: Endgame

[(Anonymous)]

Salute!
Ich will ja auch keinen Untergang, aber wir sollten uns wirklich für die Zeit nach dem Öl was ausdenken. Was wäre mit: statt dem Öl? Und: statt Atomkraft?
Das heißt eigentlich, daß wir stark zurückschrauben müssen, was wir hier als bequem, normal und nötig erachten: Nahrungsmittel-, Öl- und sonstige Ressourecenimporte aus anderen Ländern, deren Oberschicht von unseren Käufen profitiert, deren Arbeiter- und Bauern ausgebeutet werden (nein, mein Ziel ist nicht Kommunismus - der ist auch keine Lösung).
Und auch unseren Umgang mit Tieren und Pflanzen müssen wir überdenken - domestizierte und wilde. Ich will auch nicht zurück zu den Jägern und Sammlern. Und auch nicht aussterben. Dazu ist mein Lebenswille zu stark.
Und das Tüpfelchen auf dem i: Die USA - mach 700 Milliarden Dollar (so viel Geld kann ich mir eigentlich nicht vorstellen) locker, um ihre Wirtschaft zu sanieren statt ähnlich viel Geld in sinnvolle Projekte zu stecken. Sollen sie ruhig ihre Banken retten. Schadet ja sonst auch uns (oh, diese kranke Welt). Aber die Verhältnismäßigkeiten stimmen nicht.
Wir können noch Verzicht üben, ohne daß es uns allzu schlecht geht. Das fängt mit Handys an (Ja, ich habe auch eines, kann aber auch ohne) und hört mit einer Verbesserung des ÖPNV noch lange nicht auf.
Aber noch einen Planeten in der Tasche, mit Tieren und Pflanzen und anderen Ressourcen, den haben wir nicht.
So, genug geschimpft. Danke für´s Zuhören;-)

Re: My rant...

[torn-eledhwen.livejournal.com]

Time's the main reason I don't take the train or bus up to Auckland. I don't have spare days to sit around travelling, as a rule! I'd like to take the train as it's supposed to be a pretty ride.