Totally random question

[hmpf]

Does it weird anybody else out to see Sam and Gene referred to as 'boys' in fannish conversation? I know it's a common term in slash fandoms, but they're just. so. clearly. *men* to me, it jars me a tiny little bit every time I read it somewhere... And yeah, I know it's a term of endearment and not actually related to age and all that, but... I dunno. Just can't wrap my mind around it, somehow.

(Yes, this is probably just me doing what I do best again: being weird. *g*)

Comments

[loz]

Considering the fact I'm fairly sure I started that, no. Hahaha. It's clearly a facetious term.

Oh, boys. :p

[mikes-grrl.livejournal.com]

heh...yeah, I was twisting the brain trying to think of the right word but Loz nailed it: facetious. (she spelled it correctly too, which I would NOT have done! LOL!)

I mean, yeah, some people do NOT mean it humorously, more like possessively....

I know quite often when I am with other women (at work, at the club, where ever) we will talk of our spouses as "boys" -- "Where did the boys go?" or "I sent to boys for drinks". So maybe it's a similar thing, a possessive label.

Hmmm.

[loz]

I often have to write the word 'facetious' in quizzes, because invariably there's the request "describe yourself in one word". ;)

... I cannot believe that anyone in LoM fandom uses 'boys' and doesn't mean it as a bit of a laugh. I mean, Sam, sure, can be "boyish", but he is so clearly all man. And Gene? Despite having a "boy's own" approach, is likewise. Please tell me people aren't using it non-ironically? 'cause I might just cry.

[mikes-grrl.livejournal.com]

Well I can't say one way or the other, haven't seen it used much anyway, or not that I noticed.

I guess my point is that it is a term that can indicate ownership; I hardly think of my 39 year old husband as a 'boy' (except maybe when he's playing his video games, but here is not the time nor place for that discussion! lol!) but I refer to him as 'my boy' at times. Which, yeah, is humorous and a bit ironic in its own way, so...

But to the point: I can't imagine how anyone could use the term literally in ref. to Gene or Sam. That defies reality.

Not unless it's primary/secondary school!AU...

[loz]

"Mum, that boy in third form's been picking on me again. I don't know what to do!"

"Show him up. Prove how clever you can be."

"But he's not just taller than me, he's bloody smart n'all. He calls me a whole bunch of names I'd never come up with, all deadpan and sarky. Makes me wonder sometimes if he lays awake at night, like, writing it down."

"If you can't outwit him, go and tell someone who's minding the yard what he's up to."

"Then he'll beat me up worse for being a grass."

"Fine, then, appeal to his good nature."

"Don't think he has one. Too obsessive, him."

"There's nothing I can do. You have to sort it out for yourself. You're a brave one, fight back."

"Are you telling me I can punch him?"

"Yeah, why not?"

"Wicked, thanks, Mum!"

"Oh dear, maybe I ought to get Mrs Tyler on the line? Her Sam's going to trounce my poor little Eugene."

Re: Not unless it's primary/secondary school!AU...

[hmpf.livejournal.com]

Bwahahahaaaaaa!

Lovely.

Hmm...

[hmpf.livejournal.com]

maybe my perception of it is skewed by the fact that I first encountered the term in entirely unironical contexts in other fandoms.

And also....

[hmpf.livejournal.com]

by the fact that anyone who could legitimately be called a boy is, generally speaking, fairly unattractive to me, and thus applying the term (even facetiously) to someone I'm attracted to has a kind of de-eroticising effect I'm not too keen on. It's like the word has a kind of negative halo effect for me or something. *g*

Now I see where your problem lies...

[loz]

It's never meant to be erotic or an attraction-bringer. It's always used in a "oh those stupid/sweet/ridiculous individuals" kind of way.

Re: Now I see where your problem lies...

[hmpf.livejournal.com]

Well, no matter how it's meant, it just *has* that unfortunate effect on me. Not a major effect, as I said, just a tiny little one. But it's there.

(As I said. Me being weird, here. *g*)

And, really, it does rather seem to be the standard term used to refer to the two of them as a couple, in the fandom. (Granted, maybe that's because they're just inherently so ridiculous that you can't really talk about them non-humourously... ;-))

Re: Now I see where your problem lies...

[loz]

And there I was thinking only Jen and I ever said it.

Re: Now I see where your problem lies...

[hmpf.livejournal.com]

My perception may well be wrong. After all, when something jars you a bit, you tend to notice it more. Maybe it's not as frequent as it appears to me.

[loz]

Or maybe you're currently reading a lot of stuff either by Jen and myself, or inspired by it, or comments written by either of us?! ;)

Well, I don't know who Jen is,

[hmpf.livejournal.com]

so, I dunno. But as for you, well, I'm *still* only at the end of 'A'/beginning of 'B' in the community memories. And you'd *know* if I had started with the Great Loz Catchup Reading Project, because I'd leave comments.

Re: Well, I don't know who Jen is,

[loz]

As if you don't know who Jen is, pish posh! taurenova! Best writer in regards to Gene's characterisation in the fandom.

*cough*Palimpsest*cough*

Re: Well, I don't know who Jen is,

[hmpf.livejournal.com]

I know taurenova - though I haven't read any fic of hers yet; I didn't know she was named Jen. For most of the people in the fandom, I only know the LJ names. There are less than a handful of exceptions, I think.

>*cough*Palimpsest*cough*

I know... ;-)

Re: Well, I don't know who Jen is,

[loz]

Ahh, well, I know everyone ;)

No, actually, taurenova was the first friend I ever made in LoM fandom. I luff her in slightly creepy ways :D

You should go read Pro Patria Mori by her long, long before you get to 'f' or 't' on your list. I think you'd like it. And since you're reading Mikey's 'Appearances', you can't tell me that's cheating.

Re: Well, I don't know who Jen is,

[hmpf.livejournal.com]

It's not so much the issue of cheating as... a kind of fear of exhausting most of the good fic first, and then being left with a frustrating slog through the dross. I figure if I go about it alphabetically there'll be a *fairly* random distribution of good and bad stuff...

I have recently been thinking about adopting special measures to deal with the really prolific authors, though - possibly I'll intersperse my alphabetical reading spree with occasional forays into the collected works of Loz and co. ;-), because otherwise I'll be reading nothing but your stuff for months, at some point. Not that that's a bad thing - but there is the quality distribution issue again. It may make the whole experience more satisfying to occasionally slip in a story that's pretty much guaranteed to be good (i.e., e.g., one of yours) in between the randomly distributed ones.

And I'm only reading Appearances because it's essentially a bunny I had (and tried to give away, because there was no way I could write it myself, but nobody wanted it, and then Mikey came and told me that she was writing something very similar to it already.)

It's true that I have also read a few other recent fics. Really just a *very* few, though, and mostly only stuff that was either *really* short, or hitting *extremely* close to not just one but several of my major kink buttons - which is so rare an occurrence that it's difficult to resist when I notice it on the community main page.

I checked Pro Patria Mori out just now, and it does indeed look fabulous. But that's actually one more reason to save it up for later. (Also, it's too long for me to read it at the moment. It's a frelling busy week here - and no, I *really* shouldn't be posting here at all today - and will stop in a moment, I think.)

Re: Well, I don't know who Jen is,

[loz]

No, don't save it, read it now. Now, I tell you. Now! It's that good that you need to gobble it all up and feel satisfied for months afterwards. Plus, there's plenty of other great stories. Of the newer writers, anything by severinne, nepthys_uk, or argyleheir are guaranteed quality.

And I definitely don't recommend reading all my stuff at once; I feel really sorry for the people who do. They must get remarkably sick of certain phrases or wording or running jokes I like to put in over several fics. There was about 4 months there in 2006 where almost every fic I wrote had a mention of lard; for no other reason than the fact lard amuses me. I think I've used the phrase "worn out and used" in at least four different fics. Yes, seriously, don't do it.

I'm probably a bit weird about the words 'boys/girls' in general,

[hmpf.livejournal.com]

come to think of it. I never refer to myself as a girl, either, not even ironically. I guess oldschool feminism really warped me, there. *g*

Re: I'm probably a bit weird about the words 'boys/girls' in general,

[loz]

Is it also perhaps because there's more of a distinction in German? I mean, is it common for people to refer to themselves as boys and girls in German, because it's really very common in English. (It's not in Pitjantjatjara, which is why I am asking. I once called myself the word for 'girl' and all the kids were like, "NOOOO, you're so wrong. You're a [word for young, single woman]." They're not at all interchangeable.)

Re: I'm probably a bit weird about the words 'boys/girls' in general,

[hmpf.livejournal.com]

Totally common in German. In fact, the latest feminist wave here are called 'alpha girls'.

But I'm a 1970s/1980s throwback. (How appropriate. *g*)

[loz]

Right, it's confirmed. You're a weirdo :p

Re: I'm probably a bit weird about the words 'boys/girls' in general,

[mikes-grrl.livejournal.com]

But I'm a 1970s/1980s throwback.

Funnny! That IS old school (although I would say, more 60s/70s throwback). Mother and I had many long arguments about 'empowerment' centering on the use of language. She was all for spelling women as 'womyn' and outlawing porn as a patriarchal tool to objectify women while I was all for the Riot Grrls (as evidenced by my LJ name, yeah?) and reading "On Our Backs".

Come to think of it, that really defines the difference between Mother and me: She was "Off Our Backs" and I was "On Our Backs". Hahahahaaa!

'womyn'

[hmpf.livejournal.com]

'Womyn' has always struck me as silly, though.

I'm just for accuracy in language, I suppose. No need to invent new terms; and certainly no need to pretend women are something entirely different and separate from men - in that respect, I'm quite third wave.

And actually, my dislike for referring to myself as a girl may have more to do with my opposition to society's dogma of eternal youth than with my feminism. I just don't see why, at 32, I should still call myself a girl. Because a woman can't be spontaneous, have fun, be sexy, have unconventional thoughts, be free, etc.? Really - what's so bad about being a woman; why is being a girl better? I'd rather redefine the content of the word 'woman' to include 'person who can have fun etc.'...

(I don't mind other people calling themselves girl. And in fact I read several feminist blogs with 'girl' in the title. It's just not something that works for myself, in my own head.)

Oh, and as for porn:

[hmpf.livejournal.com]

well, I'm reading 'Undercover', am I not? *g*

Re: 1960s/1970s/1980s: my first, and obviously decisive contact with feminist thought was in the mid 1980s, when my mother went through her feminist phase. It really was just a phase for her, but apparently I was at an impressionable age when she went through it, because several feminist ideas became central to my developing self-image. Not very consciously so - I only realised the connection fairly recently.