hmpf | I have a rather inconvenient urge to ramble here about...

writing, painfully good fan fiction, my priorities and other related issues, but the frelling bronze age daggers won't let me.

So, instead, here's simply a link to the latest example of painfully good fan fiction that I've found:

'Thing', by Cimorene and Wax Jism. Warning: slash (R/S, cause I admit unashamedly to having become a puppyshipper): http://www.waxjism.net/pickle/stories/thing.html

(Edited to add: Just took a look at the website this story is hosted at and must confess to my total non-understanding of many slashers' fascination with boy bands and other Pretty Young Men. Not to mention the need to *slash* them. Yuck. Oh well, the story I just recced is still great.)

Current Mood: frustrated

Threaded | Top-Level Comments Only

From:

starryvelvetsky.livejournal.com

They're just so darn cute. But not together. There's just something too luscious about a pretty young man with one just a little bit older. (Or a lot older. I've slashed PYM with an OC Ian McKellen already).

Uhhh.. yeah. But you really can't blame me. It's mostly the muses. *nods* That's it. *innocent look*

From:

hmpf.livejournal.com

Who or what is 'PYM' and what is OC supposed to mean in this context? Educate me... ;-)

Well, I don't get the attraction of pretty young men, but that is simply a matter of taste - you probably don't get *my* fascination with broken, older (older than those that you prefer, that is) men.

(Darn, we're both perverts, aren't we?!) *g*

However, what I really don't get and can't quite attribute to 'just a matter of taste' is, why does it have to be the real people you write about? I realise that some people feel that fan fiction is a transgression in general, and I can't really argue with that, 'cause, legally speaking, it is. Yet, fan fiction only really starts to become a problem for *me* when there's real people involved. It's a violation of their private sphere, to my sensibility. Of course, I tend to find fictional characters more fascinating than real people, anyway, at least for the purpose of erotic fantasizing. But I think that even if I had a crush on an actor/singer/whatever, I wouldn't dare write fic about him (or her, as the case may be). I *might* fantasize about them in private (no harm in that), but I wouldn't make it public. It's just one of the very few taboos of the kind that the internet has still left me. (I had a lot more of those when I started reading fanfic!)

But really, why not write fic about the fictional characters these people are playing, or if they're not playing any, invent a new character that you can privately think of having their face and body? Would that be less of a turn-on? I'm really curious to know...

From:

starryvelvetsky.livejournal.com

In my previous PYT meant one of my pretty boys (Eri in the specific case I was speaking of) and OC was an original character based off of Ian McKellen.

And no, I never write real person slash. I'm guilty of reading one specific pairing (maybe closer to a variation of pairings) in Orlando Bloom/Viggo Mortensen/Sean Bean. But yeah... it's reading, not writing. The only one of those that I think has a background that (I think) is reasonably slashable is Orlando. VM and SB as real people would be squicky to write. They both have wives and children to consider too.

As far as writing, I agree with you. If I wanted a member of nSync (or the Fellowship actors) in my fic, I'd create a fictional entity and give him Lance or Viggo's (or Ian's) face. It'd be a matter of me not getting the real person squick from writing it, and frankly I think I'd make the fictional character more interesting than the real person anyway. ;)

(And I'm probably all over the board with pervy-ness. I have sexual characters in my writing from age 15 to 82. Darn it, I *like* pervy-ness. *giggle*)

From:

hmpf.livejournal.com

>In my previous PYT meant one of my pretty boys (Eri in the specific case I was speaking of) and OC was an original character based off of Ian McKellen.

Gotta check out your fic, someday. After all, I've chatted with Eri a few times! It should be nice to see him again. Hehe.

>And no, I never write real person slash.

Well, then you're not really a 'guilty party' (as per your own description), are you?

>I'm guilty of reading one specific pairing (maybe closer to a variation of pairings) in Orlando Bloom/Viggo Mortensen/Sean Bean. But yeah... it's reading, not writing.

Oh. Oooookay. Well... at least you don't write it. *g* (Hey, even if you did... it may not be my cup of tea, it may even be something I consider vaguely wrong in a moral sense, but I don't think it's bad enough for me to actually want to strike you off my friends list, neither in LJ nor in actuality. I'm not *that* judgemental. ;-))

>The only one of those that I think has a background that (I think) is reasonably slashable is Orlando. VM and SB as real people would be squicky to write. They both have wives and children to consider too.

Uhm... so writing them would squick you, but reading them doesn't? That's strange... methinks. And what exactly is the difference between Orlando and the other two?

>As far as writing, I agree with you. If I wanted a member of nSync

*shudder* (Sorry... very high dislike for anything boyband-like here. Although I've been compared to a one-person-boyband once by a friend. Yeah, I have weird friends, but I love them. My friends, that is, not boybands. *g*)

>(or the Fellowship actors) in my fic, I'd create a fictional entity and give him Lance or Viggo's (or Ian's) face. It'd be a matter of me not getting the real person squick from writing it, and frankly I think I'd make the fictional character more interesting than the real person anyway. ;)

Yep, that's rather an important point for me, besides the squick effect. Real people, especially actors and the like, aren't all that interesting to write about! About most of them you don't really know a lot, and what you know is what their PR people tell you, so it probably only contains truth in homeopathic doses. And really, unless the vapid Hollywood lifestyle is one of your special turn-ons, what *could* you possibly write about such people? (But then, that is probaby the freaky fantasy angst pervert in me speaking.) Of course, you could write pure PWP porn about them, but that I have always found rather boring - especially since in so many cases the characters are really interchangeable.

>(And I'm probably all over the board with pervy-ness. I have sexual characters in my writing from age 15 to 82. Darn it, I *like* pervy-ness. *giggle*)

LOL. Well, I don't think 82 is that pervy... 15 is borderline pervy, though, although I do concede that many people *are* sexually active at that age, and not in a context that would be considered child molestation. It's just a weird idea to me to be turned on by someone that young. I totally get the sexiness of Ian McKellen, on the other hand. (Okay, he's not 82 yet...)

From:

starryvelvetsky.livejournal.com

> Gotta check out your fic, someday. After all, I've chatted with Eri a few times! It should be nice to see him again. Hehe.

Eri is still around and in multiple forms. I have 4 different versions of the boy playing in different universes. Sadly, I don't have any more proper archived fic with him in it. He's kind of a roleplay character now.

> Uhm... so writing them would squick you, but reading them doesn't? That's strange... methinks. And what exactly is the difference between Orlando and the other two?

I read it occasionally when I run across it and can't find any proper LotR slash that I'm interested in. It's read with a bit of squick factor and a lot of laughter. It required a big suspension of disbelief, IMO. And the reason Orlando is more plausible is that he's had slashy real-life moments with openly gay and bi friends. (And also he's not married or involved at the moment as far as I know) *shrugs* Less suspension of disbelief with him than with Sean Bean, a long-time married man with children.

> And really, unless the vapid Hollywood lifestyle is one of your special turn-ons, what *could* you possibly write about such people?

Exactly. It's rather boring. And one can only read so many "met and fell in love on the set" stories before it gets old. But... when in the mood for fic and that's all you seem to run into...

From: (Anonymous)

> Real people, especially actors and the like,
> aren't
> all that interesting to write about! About most
> of
> them you don't really know a lot,

Which makes writing about them much easier. The fewer facts there are, the more freedom you have to flesh out the story with fiction.

> and what you
> know is what their PR people tell you, so it
> probably only contains truth in homeopathic
> doses.

Since when do fans care about the truth?
Illusion is the essence of fandom and truth is its natural enemy! At least this applies with respect to actors, singers and other real world people. If your favorite actor were a child molester, would you want to know?

> And really, unless the vapid Hollywood lifestyle
> is one of your special turn-ons, what *could*
> you
> possibly write about such people?

While I was in school I fell in love with Aleks Bechtel (former VJ of German music tv station VIVA). Well, I didn't like falling in love with her very much. After all, being a VJ she represented a world that I absolutely despise. But love is like a disease. You don't get to choose when it hits you and who you get it from. Anyways, once I had returned to normal, I got this idea for a story about her (of course I'd never have used her real name had I written that story, but for me it would have been a story about her). I'll spare you the details, but in the end of the story, she turns out to have some serious mental problems (she sends herself death threats by fax). This story was kind of my revenge for how she made me feel. I'm sick, I know. But then, only sick people consider writing fan faction, in the first place ;-)

From:

hmpf.livejournal.com

you didn't *write* that story and put it on the internet, did you?

I understand why people might fantasise about such things - although I prefer to keep my fantasies safely in the fictional realm - but what I don't *get* is why anybody would write that kind of stuff down and publish it on the net. Fan fiction is not the same as Real People Fic, IMO.

From: (Anonymous)

> you didn't *write* that story and put it on the
> internet, did you?

No, but the reason is the same as for all the other stories I've never finished: Priorities. I simply don't manage to give my writing priority over all the other things I like to do. If I were suddenly infected with an insatiable urge to write, then I'd take out all of the novel sketches and fragments and finish them all, including this crazy VJ story. Why not? I've done weirder fan pieces already (CILD for instance:) . But of course I would never include information to unambiguously identify someone. I have that much sanity left :-) MSB

From: (Anonymous)

> Fan fiction is not the same as Real People Fic

I find it very interesting that you of all people see a sharp distinction, here. I am under the impression that fandom is a *very* important part of your life, not only your virtual but also your real life.
Is it so much crazier to write fictional stories about real life people than to have real life conventions about fictional ones?

IMHO, the lines are very blurry. If you met Patrick Stewart in uniform at a Star Trek convention, wouldn't that make Captain Picard a lot more real to you than, let's say, me, who you've never met? He probably behaves much more like a normal person than I do :-)

And have you ever asked yourself how real *you* appear to other people? I, for instance, know you only from what you write. I've never even heard your voice. So is this Hmpf person more real to me than Captain Picard? I've heard his voice. I've seen him move. I know his beliefs, his life story, even some of his relatives. Who is more real? The only difference I see is that I'm reasonably convinced that Captain Picard does not exist, whereas I'm reasonably conviced that you do. But is that difference so important? I don't perceive it as such.
If I write fiction, a song or poetry about or draw a picture of a person I've not invented myself, it's because that person has touched me in some way. Fictional or not doesn't influence whether I do it. BTW, fiction about real people is not just something weird people like me create. There is an animated series about Jackie Chan, for instance.

MSB

From:

hmpf.livejournal.com

well, I don't have much time, having to finish writing a text on bronze age daggers *and* being sick ATM; so here's just a quick reply.

It is, to me, not a matter of reality but of *respect*. Also, there is a difference between a cartoon series about Jackie Chan (who, btw, doubtlessly authorised it) and *pornographic* RPS that does not even try to conceal who the author is fantasising about. Everybody is free to fantasise about whatever they want. E.g., hypothetically speaking, you're free to fantasise about me, although I would feel more comfortable if you didn't. (And please, don't tell me if you do... I really don't want to know!) It's your mind, and I can't control what's happening in it. However, as soon as you would make any fantasies about me *public* I would consider it a severe violation of my private sphere. All this is speaking hypothetically, of course. I don't want to accuse you of anything like that.

RPS is *public*, and that makes all the difference for me - and doubtlessly for the rock stars and actors who are being slashed, too.

From: (Anonymous)

> there is a difference between a cartoon series
> about Jackie Chan (who, btw, doubtlessly
> authorised
> it) and *pornographic* RPS

What does "RPS" stand for ?
And apparently I misunderstood the topic. Sometimes I'm a bit slow on the uptake. Now that I re-read your initial posting I feel very stupid (well, I get that feeling regularly:-). It should have been very obvious from the beginning what kind of stories you were talking about. My only excuse is that it was long time ago that you explained the term "slasher fanfic" to me. Seems I didn't really integrate it into my vocabulary. As you may remember I don't read fanfics and have no contact to the "scene". But it's a weak excuse. I have absolutely no idea how I could be so far off track.

Needless to say (I hope) that I have never written or drawn anything pornographic involving real people. And of course I would never consider it. And I agree one hundred percent that putting stuff like this on the Internet (well, even writing it in the 1st place) is tasteless.

From: (Anonymous)

I feel so embarassed. This was was certainly one of my worst screwups ever. I'll have to remember to not ever enter a fanfic discussion again. I'm very very sorry.