hmpf: Cole and Ramse from the show not actually called "Splinter" (Default)
hmpf ([personal profile] hmpf) wrote2010-12-20 05:31 pm
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Sooooooooooooooooooooooo....

I was kind of stuck at my parents' place in a snowstorm, with my external hard drive, and they have a new TV that you can plug USB drives in, so I started watching Doctor Who (Doctor Eleven). (Okay, various people's recent and not so recent efforts to re-sell the show to me helped, too.) So I watched two eps, and I cried *twice*.

It's either PMS or this season is really, really good.

One question: Why do they cut all these *awesome* scenes? Like this, and this?

[identity profile] chamekke.livejournal.com 2010-12-20 04:40 pm (UTC)(link)
*nods* It's not PMS (unless I have it too, permanently)... this series is superb. I was completely captivated by the Eleventh Doctor about midway through episode 1. He and Amy are both so wonderfully mercurial in their different ways.

I'm glad you were finally persuaded! And that you shared those lovely deleted scenes, which I had /not/ seen. *hugs the 'Bridging the Two' clip*

[identity profile] beccatoria.livejournal.com 2010-12-20 07:04 pm (UTC)(link)
Ahahaaha, dude, if you're crying this early, you NEED to tell me what happens to you when you get to the two-part finale and/or the episode with Vincent Van Gogh.

But yes, it really is that good. I really can't even begin to properly squee at you about the beautiful, thematic character-and-meta arcs of the whole series until you're finished. <3

As to those scenes, they weren't actually cut; unfortunately none of the cut scenes made it into the box set, which is a shame because there's talk of some lovely ones in one of the making-of books that came out. They were actually filmed specially for the box set to bridge the episodes in question. So while it's still a fair question to ask why scenes like that weren't in the episodes, they weren't actually cut either.

One of the criticisms that was leveled at the series was that it didn't take enough time for character moments like that. Personally I disagree; I think what people mostly meant was why it didn't continue the RTD era's no holds barred melodrama narm fest and thus an annoying meme has developed on the interwebs about how RTD is good at character while Moffat is good at plot, which makes me want to run around yelling about how what I love about S5 is the character, and that I find it so much more affecting for being quiet but deeply felt and authentic.

Err, which is a long way of saying, I would also like scenes like this to be in it more, if only because (a) it's what I love more than random monsters and (b) it would provide more things to point to when people say S5 had no character moments. Even though I strenuously disagree with that criticism anyway. AND STUFF.

Um, I may be babbling now because I'm also snowed in with a sore throat and nothing to do. AND I MIGHT JUST HAVE TO GO AND WATCH THE LAST EPISODE OF THE SERIES AGAIN. <3
ext_26142: (Rory Waited by beccadg)

[identity profile] beccadg.livejournal.com 2010-12-20 08:38 pm (UTC)(link)
...RTD is good at character while Moffat is good at plot...

Say what? As an Old School Who fan I never liked RTD's treatment of it, and after suffering through what he did to Torchwood in Children of Earth it's safe to say I don't like RTD at all. I'm not prepared to pass judgment on Moff's plotting skills from a single season, but I think it's safe to say he's good with characters. I may not be fond of Eleven, Amy, or River Song but along with Rory and Vincent there were a number of one-off characters I liked. If the man was bad with character I wouldn't even have noticed the one-off's much less cared about them.

[identity profile] beccatoria.livejournal.com 2010-12-20 09:07 pm (UTC)(link)
Yeah, I don't get it either. I mean I do like Eleven, Amy and River Song, but that's always going to be a matter of personal preference. But I find it very odd...not so much that people don't like his main characters and use that to opine that he's bad at constructing them (cus not everyone's as awesome at you at telling the difference between characters one doesn't like and characters that are badly written!) but that people believe Moffat himself doesn't care about character? Or thinks it's unimportant? Because objectively the entire season kind of...hangs off of character arcs, both resolved and unresolved. But hey. We can at least agree that RTD didn't do a great job, which is disappointing since I do think he's a capable writer in other formats. I just think that Doctor Who didn't end up playing to his strengths and allowed him to kind of...descend into indulgence.

I'm not a huge old skool fan, but I did watch Doctor Who before the new series. Sylvester McCoy and Ace are probably my favourite team-up, though I always surprise myself with how much I enjoy Troughton whenever I catch an episode with him in it. :)
ext_26142: (1stRomana&TARDIS by beccadg)

[identity profile] beccadg.livejournal.com 2010-12-21 02:13 am (UTC)(link)
Cus not everyone's as awesome at you at telling the difference between characters one doesn't like and characters that are badly written!

Thanks. I'd say Eleven and Amy are well written, just not characters I like. I do find the writing for River Song somewhat problematic, but then she is a character Moff is carrying over from RTD's tenure. Makes me inclined to be a bit forgiving of the feeling that her writing is... lumpy.

...but that people believe Moffat himself doesn't care about character? Or thinks it's unimportant?

*Blinks.* RTD has me convinced he'll cheerfully abandon good characterization for the sake of weak plot or bad melodrama, but Moff hasn't made me feel that way. I was worried he might after the midseason two-parter, but he held things together.

Because objectively the entire season kind of...hangs off of character arcs, both resolved and unresolved.

*Nods.* The season was very character driven.

...I do think he's a capable writer in other formats.

Hmm, apart from the character Captain Jack Harkness having been introduced during his tenure on Who, and his having prompted the development of the character Ianto Jones on Torchwood I haven't seen anything from RTD that makes me like or respect the man. Of course his handling of Who and Torchwood have left me quite bitter on both subjects.

I'm not a huge old skool fan...

I am. My Team TARDIS likely will always be Four, Romana One and K-9. Though I wouldn't have given NuWho the attention I have if I hadn't enjoyed Nine, Captain Jack Harkness and Rose. Nine remains my favorite NuWho Doctor.

Sylvester McCoy and Ace are probably my favourite team-up, though I always surprise myself with how much I enjoy Troughton whenever I catch an episode with him in it. :)

Heh, McCoy and Troughton are two of my three least favorite Doctors. Hartnell is the third. I'm sure part of the reason I dislike Eleven as much as I do is how Matt Smith's love of Troughton comes through in his performance. I did like Ace, and love Jamie McCrimmon though. I got to meet the actor who played Jamie over Thanksgiving weekend in Chicago.

[identity profile] dune-drd.livejournal.com 2010-12-20 08:22 pm (UTC)(link)
Star Whale is LOVE!
ext_26142: (4th Doctor/TARDIS by beccadg)

[identity profile] beccadg.livejournal.com 2010-12-20 08:28 pm (UTC)(link)
Well, while I'm not fond of Eleven or Amy, I'd say anyone that doesn't cry watching "Vincent and the Doctor" or "The Pandorica Opens/The Big Bang" has no soul.

[identity profile] torn-eledhwen.livejournal.com 2010-12-20 11:42 pm (UTC)(link)
No, the season is really, really good. I speak as a committed Ten fan who was won over by Eleven ridiculously quickly. Keep watching.